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Badger
15-02-2005, 11:52 AM
A real discussion topic at last

Last night at the committee meeting we were reviewing the points structure for the Brickendon time trials

Current system is 10 points to 1st down to 1 point for 10th and best of 10 races

Andy suggested that we should change this so the points awarded to the winner are based on the number of North Roaders competing with one point for the last rider. This would then reflect the quality of the opposition. However we had a reservation that if the weather was poor then no-one would turn up to race as there would be fewer points available because there would be fewer riders in total. Currently if it?s raining you get more riders than you would expect as they are all chasing high points expecting no-one else to turn up.

An alternative system is to have maximum points based on the number of riders starting (or finishing)

For example

10 riders or less

10 points for win

20 riders or less

20 points for win

30 riders or less

30 points for win

Any ideas anyone?

big_bad_boy
15-02-2005, 12:13 PM
I think we should keep this simple. The problem we've currently got is that you don't get rewarded for a win, 2nd place, etc. You can score highly just by riding lots of events.

Perhaps the following point system would work:

1st - 20
2nd - 15
3rd - 12
4th - 10
5th - 8
6th - 6
7th - 4
8th - 3
9th - 2
10th - 1

We could maybe add the caveat that says "if there are 3 riders or less then you can only get a maximum of x points... " but that's probably unfair. If it's raining and you turn up to race then you probably deserve the points! It show's you're strong. YEAH.

Heffalump
15-02-2005, 01:30 PM
Lets backtrack......

Is the current system generating mucho wailing and gnashing by the riders, do we hear shouts of "foul play" :?: Does it need to be fixed if it aint really broken :?:

p.s. Look on the bright side; new dad Darren's not going to get any sleep for the next 3 years, so we'll all move up a notch anyway :wink: Calm down and have a nice pot of tea and a chocolate hob-nob..............mmmmm :lol:

Mick Quinn
15-02-2005, 04:13 PM
I agree with heff, if it aint broke....If non club members want to get involved in points table do what I did and join NRCC

Badger
15-02-2005, 04:43 PM
This is not about non members. Points will only be available for club members

How about bit like the BC points system

up to 10 riders, 15 for win, down to 1 for 10th
up to 20 then 20 for win down to 1 for 20th
up to 30 then 30 for win down to 1 for 30th

so more opposition more points but doesn't discourage attendance when weather is bad. Also it may encourage attendance coz if someone is after points then they will turn up to beef up the numbers.

etc.

we also would like to award points to those who don't get many. We could then have a separate B category competition.

Problem then though is do we still have best of 10 coz your best 10 maybe when there were alot of riders?

But that's why it's on the forum aint it?

Rogers Brother
15-02-2005, 05:12 PM
Excuse me for butting in but a win is a win is a win you can only beat the ones that turn up so points should be the same each week but you could extend the list so everyone who finishes or starts gets a point

Go_Live
15-02-2005, 06:07 PM
Changing the number of points depending on the no of riders is a def a bad idea. Pete's got the right idea, do the points formula one style :D
.

Badger
15-02-2005, 06:15 PM
OK

Good idea about more points for winning compared to 2nd place but should we extend the points mayde top 15 or top 20. That way there are more points to go round. We could then have a B league.

Go_Live
15-02-2005, 06:42 PM
OK

Good idea about more points for winning compared to 2nd place but should we extend the points mayde top 15 or top 20. That way there are more points to go round. We could then have a B league.
OK good idea, how about for people below 5ft 5 qualify for the B league :D

Mick Quinn
15-02-2005, 08:36 PM
looking at last years results I think the orders about right. Nough said :?:

Rogers Brother
15-02-2005, 10:17 PM
how about you get 10 times as many points if you live more than 200 miles away

Mick Quinn
16-02-2005, 02:57 PM
How's about best 10 TIMES then take your avg time? :idea:

Go_Live
16-02-2005, 03:06 PM
How about a designated Tues night sometime in the summer for a 'one off'' 3 or 4 up TT arounf the circuit :?:

Badger
16-02-2005, 03:14 PM
Sounds good

Also a one-off road bikes only no tri bars race. If anyone uses a time trial bike they get no points.

Go_Live
16-02-2005, 03:16 PM
Sounds good

Also a one-off road bikes only no tri bars race. If anyone uses a time trial bike they get no points.
Yeah that'll expose Darrens weakness won't it :D
He probably just won't ride :roll:

Rogers Brother
17-02-2005, 07:45 AM
How's about best 10 TIMES then take your avg time? :idea:
Its about winning not times isn't it?
1st 30
2nd 27
3rd 25
4th 24
3rd 23
5th 22
6th 21
7th 20
8th 19
9th 18
10th 17
11th 16
12th 15
13th 14
14th 13
15th 12
16th 11
17th 10
18th 9
19th 8
20th 7
21st 6
22nd 5
23rd 4
24th 3
25th 2
26th 1

Heffalump
17-02-2005, 08:21 AM
Roger's brother's got the right idea luvvies :D I think the important thing here is that we dont want any child,...er rider, to feel bad about themselves because they cant experience the euphoria of victory. So as far as possible, we'll strive to reduce the element of winning/losing per se, by making sure that no-one who takes part goes away empty handed. I'd also suggest those riders sitting at home on Tuesday nights, because of illness/light rain/unfavourable wind direction, be awarded a few points to prevent them being discouraged from taking part in later events. How does this sound :?: More tofu anyone :?: :lol:

The Bish
17-02-2005, 06:15 PM
Last night at the committee meeting we were reviewing the points structure for the Brickendon time trials

Current system is 10 points to 1st down to 1 point for 10th and best of 10 races

Andy suggested that we should change this so the points awarded to the winner are based on the number of North Roaders competing with one point for the last rider. This would then reflect the quality of the opposition. However we had a reservation that if the weather was poor then no-one would turn up to race as there would be fewer points available because there would be fewer riders in total. Currently if it?s raining you get more riders than you would expect as they are all chasing high points expecting no-one else to turn up.

I don't see a problem with how it is at the moment. Currently someone who braves the bad weather gets bonus points.

If we are trying to reward the quality of the ride, the points would have to take into account the time and conditions, the number of riders does not necessarily indicate the quality. Someone who runs a bike shop could wait for a cold, rainy day and offer a load of non-racing Norf Roaders a free inner tube if they ride, 100 points gained, The Salver won :!: :lol:

If we are trying to encourage riders to turn up every week we could do away with the best ten rides and use the total.

Rogers Brother
18-02-2005, 05:39 PM
Roger's brother's got the right idea luvvies :D

The winner of the series is the one who gets the most points the points are gained by winning events, each event is the same value with the same number of points available, just because the others can't be ar$ed to turn out because it is wet windy and cold tough, in fact by keeping all events equal encourages peeps to turn out in all weathers. If allowances were made for bad weather then we would all be first cats in the north! The only alteration from previous years might be to increase the difference between the top placings (although if you look back not sure if that makes any difference) and to extend the placings that obtain points so that those who aren't in the top 10 can also compete for the lower placings the competition for 11th place might not seem like a big deal unless you are are 12th.
Still think there should be a bonus for those travelling over 200 miles to ride the event? :D

big_bad_boy
21-02-2005, 04:34 PM
Changing the number of points depending on the no of riders is a def a bad idea. Pete's got the right idea, do the points formula one style :D
.

George is learning fast... I reckon that the system should certaintly change, and that the gap in the number of points between positions should be increased...I also think the idea of having a A + B league is a great idea. I'm not sure we need placings beyond 20th place though, because we rarely get that many NR riders.

If we went for A + B leagues we could easily assign riders bast upon past performances... if they are new then we just user there first 3 rides of the season (or something like that).

Pete

Badger
22-02-2005, 01:02 PM
OK top 20 but more points for winning. Maybe 25, 23, 21,20,19 down to 1 or similar

And instead of 10 events to qualify it is the best ten events so even if you do 8 events you are still eligible for a placing

Rogers Brother
22-02-2005, 06:03 PM
OK top 20 but more points for winning. Maybe 25, 23, 21,20,19 down to 1 or similar

And instead of 10 events to qualify it is the best ten events so even if you do 8 events you are still eligible for a placing
I think he's got it

Goodwin Hunting
24-02-2005, 12:29 PM
Id say a slight revision is needed to give credit to getting first.

therefore
15 for first then 12 for second then 10 down to 3. then 1 pt for all starters.

this way everyone who turns up feels at least they get 1 pt & winner gets 3 pts over second.

Yes I agree that current system aint bad - but a slight change i think is workable -

Rogers Brother
25-02-2005, 08:30 AM
1 pt for all starters.

think points should go far enough so all finishers get points for placing not the same for starting

Heffalump
25-02-2005, 09:06 AM
1 point for all starters :roll: :!: :!: :!: Where's the merit, or satisfaction in receiving a point just for being arsed to turn up :?: Doesn't this rather insult someone who has just killed themselves to come 20th (or wherever) and scraped 2 points, only to see some pie-eater chug round at 12mph and get a point just for being there? Will half-points also be available for sitting in front of the t.v. and feeling guilty about not turning up :?: :lol:

Can't take much more of this tester stylee navel gazing :roll: :x Its driving me bananas :x I'm off to watch some paint dry :wink: :lol:

big'un
25-02-2005, 05:57 PM
Roger's brother's got the right idea luvvies :D I think the important thing here is that we dont want any child,...er rider, to feel bad about themselves because they cant experience the euphoria of victory. So as far as possible, we'll strive to reduce the element of winning/losing per se, by making sure that no-one who takes part goes away empty handed. I'd also suggest those riders sitting at home on Tuesday nights, because of illness/light rain/unfavourable wind direction, be awarded a few points to prevent them being discouraged from taking part in later events. How does this sound :?: More tofu anyone :?: :lol:

and if we vote liberal democrate in the next election we can have 10 pionts :roll:

big'un
25-02-2005, 06:02 PM
i have sent these comments to Darren at the shop, he as asked me to enquire that if he promises to wear the NRCC kit for every TT can he have extra points :lol:

Badger
25-02-2005, 06:06 PM
No just anyone who doesn't wear NR kit gets no points

big'un
25-02-2005, 06:11 PM
badge
breaking news..... i tried my NRCC kit on yesterday evening IT FITS.
i kept it on for my turbo session beautttttttiful.
i may even wear it tomorrow at Eastway 8)

Badger
25-02-2005, 06:13 PM
so no weight gain on holiday then?

big'un
25-02-2005, 06:22 PM
dont tell rusty but i actually saw the number 15 on the scales this week :lol:
skiing every day for a week with two kids who have no fear, good for the
waist line.

Badger
25-02-2005, 06:24 PM
we're all doomed, doomed I say :lol: :cry:

Rogers Brother
25-02-2005, 08:01 PM
1 point for all starters :roll: :!: :!: :!: Where's the merit, or satisfaction in receiving a point just for being arsed to turn up :?: :lol:
:
None at all

Rusty Ryder-Brown
06-03-2005, 11:32 AM
Shhhhhhhh....
don't tell Big'un but I saw the number 16 on the scales not long ago...that is also a weeks skiing but eating like a horse followed by a week in France just, eating comme un cheval, followed by seeing some very fast people do the Hardriders and feeling very fat and lethargic now!!!
Might see you sometime this year - if not then for a good shoeing at the weekend away, then Flanders then Liege. Arse!

Badger
06-03-2005, 03:51 PM
Shhhhhhhh....
don't tell Big'un but I saw the number 16 on the scales not long ago...that is also a weeks skiing but eating like a horse followed by a week in France just, eating comme un cheval, followed by seeing some very fast people do the Hardriders and feeling very fat and lethargic now!!!
Might see you sometime this year - if not then for a good shoeing at the weekend away, then Flanders then Liege. Arse!

oh dear. We have arranged a route just for you James that goes up Fish Hill. Looks like you will be doing one of the 'alternative' shorter ones.

big'un
11-03-2005, 05:52 PM
Shhhhhhhh....
don't tell Big'un but I saw the number 16 on the scales not long ago...that is also a weeks skiing but eating like a horse followed by a week in France just, eating comme un cheval, followed by seeing some very fast people do the Hardriders and feeling very fat and lethargic now!!!
Might see you sometime this year - if not then for a good shoeing at the weekend away, then Flanders then Liege. Arse!

are you coming out to play tomorrow :lol: go on you know you want to, i will buy you a nice BIG slice of cake at the tea stop :twisted:

Rusty Ryder-Brown
11-03-2005, 07:10 PM
Cheeky f*****g gits!!!
No fat bloke jokes, and definately no BIG SLICES OF CAKE!! I will bring my own...
Yes I am out tomorrow, so looking for a nice slow person looking to do not a lot at all. no hope I fear. Oh well - no pain no gain. Gotta be back early for the rugby though, so might not have a cafe stop - did I just say that??????
Bugger.

Badger
16-03-2005, 05:04 PM
Suggestion

1st 30
2nd 27
3rd 25
4th 23
5th 21
6th 19
7th 17
8th 15
9th 13
10th 11
11th 10
12th 9
13th 8
14th 7
15th 6
16th 5
17th 4
18th 3
19th 2
20th 1

Go_Live
16-03-2005, 06:35 PM
Suggestion

1st 30
2nd 27
3rd 25
4th 23
5th 21
6th 19
7th 17
8th 15
9th 13
10th 11
11th 10
12th 9
13th 8
14th 7
15th 6
16th 5
17th 4
18th 3
19th 2
20th 1
perfect :D

Whippet
17-03-2005, 08:35 AM
Suggestion

1st 30
2nd 27
3rd 25
4th 23
5th 21
6th 19
7th 17
8th 15
9th 13
10th 11
11th 10
12th 9
13th 8
14th 7
15th 6
16th 5
17th 4
18th 3
19th 2
20th 1
perfect :D

Looks remarkable like the points for a 130k+ road race to me. :lol: