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JohnC
12-06-2006, 10:30 PM
(deleted)

Ben
12-06-2006, 10:49 PM
Both.

How about just comming to terms with the status quo and moving on?

ChrisB
12-06-2006, 11:46 PM
Well, John's going to have to move on, because I've just banned him. He was warned. These forums will not stand for repeated attempts to cause trouble for its users.

ChrisB
14-06-2006, 11:44 AM
If anyone is still interested in what John has to say, you can follow it over at Veloriders:

http://www.veloriders.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=39733

John is still suspended, because so far he has not reassured me that he won't continue to post allegations of cheating and underhand behaviour against ERRL clubs and ERRL member riders. This simple request is all I am asking for.

Ben
14-06-2006, 12:02 PM
and they seem more interested in the fact he was banned from this forum than in the 'henous crime against cycling' that he is currently obsessed with :wink:

pottsie
14-06-2006, 01:53 PM
I have just received this from Jonny Clay at BC HQ:

We do not govern anything regarding the CTT and as such a competitor may ride for a different club entirely in a CTT event than when racing in a BC event.

Hope that helps ÖÖ.Jonny

Jonny Clay
British Cycling
Competition and Events Manager
NCC
Stuart Street
Manchester
M11 4DQ.

Office, 0044 161 274 2025
Mobile, 0044 7931 534645
E-mail, jonnyclay@britishcycling.org.uk

pottsie
14-06-2006, 01:55 PM
And this from Paul West at BC HQ:

Reality is that a rider may only ride in the name and colours of that club/team as shown on his/her licence. The relationship which that rider has with such a club/team is a matter for the club to sort on receipt of each rider's licence. ( After all how are BC HQ to know what this relationship might be?) Leagues and other competitions may however make their own regulations up to over rule this situation in the interests of their own competition.

You will be aware that a number of riders do hold licences in the names of more than one club/team to enable them to receive support when competing in more than one cycling discipline.

With regard to riders riding for a different club in events run under CTT regs, then that is a matter for the CTT.

Hope the above helps.

All the best
Paul West
Competition Coordinator - Road, Track & Disability
British Cycling
National Cycling Centre
Stuart Street
Manchester M11 4DQ
0161 274 2021 (Ph)
0161 274 2019 (Fax)
07834 098190 (Mobile)

PNuT
14-06-2006, 05:36 PM
If anyone is still interested in what John has to say, you can follow it over at Veloriders:

http://www.veloriders.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=39733

John is still suspended, because so far he has not reassured me that he won't continue to post allegations of cheating and underhand behaviour against ERRL clubs and ERRL member riders. This simple request is all I am asking for.

it wont be long before i lock it on there :lol:

PNuT
14-06-2006, 07:38 PM
done 8)

Nick E
14-06-2006, 10:28 PM
Looks like a guy with a serious vendetta against Douglas Bradshaw.

Did he switch him in a finishing sprint or nick his warm-up balm or something?????

racyrich
15-06-2006, 01:35 PM
Blimey, he made the same post on VR, timetriallingforum and londoncyclesport. This guy needs to have a serious word with himself, and not just about his forum addiction.

ChrisB
15-06-2006, 02:17 PM
It's really getting old fast, isn't it?

Am I doing the right thing by waiting for him to say he won't carry on in similar style before reinstating his membership here?

racyrich
15-06-2006, 02:20 PM
He's from Eco Energy isn't he? Not that I know him. Give him a club forum and let him rant in private to the converted. With any luck his own clubmates will then think he's a **** too.

ChrisB
15-06-2006, 02:22 PM
I have looked into that, but there's no way to do it without making all the public forums private.

There's already a TEE forum - it's just a little quiet, with only three or four registered users.

Ben
15-06-2006, 04:20 PM
It's really getting old fast, isn't it?

Am I doing the right thing by waiting for him to say he won't carry on in similar style before reinstating his membership here?

Absolutely. He has gone well beyond rasing a legitimate query / concern and his current behaviour is not only completely irrational but probably libelous* and until he regains his sanity, I'd keep him banned.

* given he is implying wrong doing when it appears that everything is actually above board.

Barky
15-06-2006, 08:55 PM
He's still at it on the Londocyclesport forum, I hope I never meet the guy, he seems incapable of understanding simple facts. He might take it badly if somebody said 'hello' to him. I've always known us cyclists are a little odd, but this guy takes the biscuit, no, the packet of biscuits, in fact, he takes the big metal box of biscuits my auntie used to give me a christmas, bless.

JohnC
01-07-2006, 01:02 PM
For those that missed the original point and the reaction.Ö

Douglas Bradshaw rides for 2 teams, the best Eastern TT team (API) and the Best RR team (Cambridge CC).

Is it true that no one else in the UK has thought of doing that (riding for two different teams in TT and RR)?

Does if offer material advantage over the other 1,300 teams that have one set of riders for both disciplines?

If this practice spreads, will it lead to polarisation of TT and RR, with single discipline specialist clubs that draw in riders from various teams, not requiring the commitment of first claim, but able to use them to win, in what is a team sport?

APIís Andy Palmer rings me up about 8 times at work, APIís Pnut locks the VR thread and APIís CB stops me from making this simple point on the ERRL forum.

Barky
01-07-2006, 01:06 PM
If this practice spreads, will it lead to polarisation of TT and RR, with single discipline specialist clubs that draw in riders from various teams, not requiring the commitment of first claim, but able to use them to win, in what is a team sport?



Why didn't you just state that you thought it was unfair in the first place, you accused my club of organised cheating, frankly making me quite upset. You also went on about sponsorship, how do you think that kind of accusation makes my club sponsor think. You were out of order, my club discussed this issue at a committe meeting, it was approved because RR and TT are two seperate sports and with the agreement of both bodies that nothing underhand was going on. I expect an apology, to my club and my sponsor.

JohnC
01-07-2006, 02:46 PM
What exactly is it about what I have said that upsets you? What exactly have I stated that is not the truth?

Why would you defend such a singular state of affairs which is out of keeping with the accepted practice for the other 10,000 plus racers in the UK?

Barky
01-07-2006, 03:43 PM
Let me ask you this question then.
John, do you think Cambridge CC has acted in a dishonest manner regarding their position of Douglas Bradshaw riding time trials for API and road races for Cambridge CC?

Yes or no?

JohnC
01-07-2006, 03:55 PM
I think that one member should ride for one club. 99% of people you might talk to would think that that is the universal position - it was new to me, Pottie thought that was the case.

Does is not embarrass you? I assume so, because there is such an extreme reaction, from you and API.

As a sponsor I have a duty to ensure that my team have an even playing field to compete on.

What would you think if our best TT'ers started turning out for (say) Ciclos Uno, beating API, and then some well known TTer started working for TEE in the ERRL, making a didference to the result, racking up some points for us?

That is why the rules are there, there has always been the 1st claim rule specifically to prevent this scenario.

If it became common practice the whole club competitive structure would be undermined.

I would be really uncomfortable if one of our team wanted to do RR or TT only for another team. They would have to make a choice as to which team that they rode for, and that is what i think Douglas should do.

Barky
01-07-2006, 03:58 PM
Let me ask you this question then.
John, do you think Cambridge CC has acted in a dishonest manner regarding their position of Douglas Bradshaw riding time trials for API and road races for Cambridge CC?

Yes or no?

Yes or no, this deserves an answer so I can understand your position.

One word answer please.

sam
01-07-2006, 04:06 PM
JohnC's a penarse.
You have your answers, from many different places, so just leave it. Nothing is wrong with it, no-one's cheating and everyone's getting pissed off whilst you keep digging and making yourself look even more like a chump.

Barky
01-07-2006, 04:10 PM
But I need an answer, perhaps he thinks everybody else is correct now, otherwise he would simply say yes or no. It's easy to do, give me an answer.

Rogers Brother
01-07-2006, 07:24 PM
I thought you could only be a first claim memeber of one club seems a shame that clubs are so desperate for riders. Certainly against my view of fair play.

Rogers Brother
01-07-2006, 07:26 PM
I think that one member should ride for one club. 99% of people you might talk to would think that that is the universal position - it was new to me, Pottie thought that was the case.

Does is not embarrass you? I assume so, because there is such an extreme reaction, from you and API.

As a sponsor I have a duty to ensure that my team have an even playing field to compete on.

What would you think if our best TT'ers started turning out for (say) Ciclos Uno, beating API, and then some well known TTer started working for TEE in the ERRL, making a didference to the result, racking up some points for us?

That is why the rules are there, there has always been the 1st claim rule specifically to prevent this scenario.

If it became common practice the whole club competitive structure would be undermined.

I would be really uncomfortable if one of our team wanted to do RR or TT only for another team. They would have to make a choice as to which team that they rode for, and that is what i think Douglas should do.

I agree but that won't make a jot of difference to anyone elses view.

racyrich
01-07-2006, 10:57 PM
I think that one member should ride for one club. 99% of people you might talk to would think that that is the universal position - it was new to me, Pottie thought that was the case.

OK, you've put your opinion, to which you're entitled. This does not make you correct, or even incorrect. In fact it's utterly irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that the rider, his 2 clubs and the various governing bodies are happy with the arrangement, and they are. End of story. You're not. Hard luck. Life's full of things we don't like. Most we just grin and bear. You're actually lucky that the relatively democratic nature of cycling allows you to propose rule changes all round at the end of the year. I expect you to do so.
Meantime, leave everyone in peace.

Hugo Robins
01-07-2006, 10:59 PM
While it's obviously a shame that this discussion has become so heated, it does raise a reasonably interesting question:

In cycling is it enough just to follow the rules or is there an area where one has to consider also whether one is acting sportingly or fairly or within the spirit of the sport?

I don't actually think this matter of Doug amounts to a great deal either way, taken in isolation. (And forgive me for not commenting on the mudslinging above.)

But surely cycling is almost unique in the extent to which there is in fact a code of honourable behaviour: isn't that part of its appeal?. On the road, and perhaps beyond it, is there not at least scope for a sort of political generosity and its opposite; for loyalty and for deceit; scope to act honourably or otherwise?

Ben
02-07-2006, 09:38 AM
APIís Andy Palmer rings me up about 8 times at work, APIís Pnut locks the VR thread and APIís CB stops me from making this simple point on the ERRL forum.

You went way beyond trying to make a point. It seemed to be an obsessed rant which accused everyone of dishonesty and rule breaking. Just making a point would be "Is it OK to ride for two clubs?", "yes", "oh - ok, I didn't realise that".

sam
02-07-2006, 06:16 PM
APIís Andy Palmer rings me up about 8 times at work, APIís Pnut locks the VR thread and APIís CB stops me from making this simple point on the ERRL forum.

You went way beyond trying to make a point. It seemed to be an obsessed rant which accused everyone of dishonesty and rule breaking. Just making a point would be "Is it OK to ride for two clubs?", "yes", "oh - ok, I didn't realise that".

Couldn't have put it better

ChrisB
02-07-2006, 10:15 PM
OK, I'm locking this thread, and will DELETE any further threads that get started, and suspend the starter. This discussion has gone on, on at least four separate forums, for long enough to demonstrate that:

a) John's upset
b) Douglas's actions are sanctioned by all the relevant authorities
c) Other members of Douglas's road club are getting VERY UPSET by John's implications and accusations
d) Nobody else seems to care what Douglas does

If John hasn't woken up and realised that Road and TT are different sports just like MTB by now, he never will. Repeatedly saying 'shock horror, he's riding for two clubs' is not productive. It is entirely within John's ability to lobby the respective organisations for rule changes through the correct channels.

Of course, me locking this thread will just be another part in the whole cover up that Cambridge and Api MUST be participating in, right? But next time I see you John, ask me for a 10 pence piece - then you can call someone who gives a toss.

Frankly, after the warnings I gave you when I reinstated you, you're lucky I haven't suspended you again immediately. Lucky for you I've been on holiday for a week, so I'm quite relaxed.