Jock Wadley Memorial Cat 2/3/4??

[MikeC]

The Jock Wadley is listed on the BC website as a 2/3/4 event - I assume this is an error?

[lombywill]

its listed also as 234 in the printed calendar. is it true?????

[speedyshaun]

Just seen it in the BC magazine - at least the bunch should stay together abit longer, another kick in the teeth for local 1st's and elites.

[Sean Sumner]

...... another kick in the teeth for local 1st's and elites.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[PNuT]

nah... look in announcements....

Sunday 12th Jock Wadley Memorial Race Colchester Rovers CC E/1/2 Birch Malcolm Hargreaves

[Alan Lawrence]

....definately E/1/2 no so soft pedalling for the local 1st Cats. :!: :lol: :wink:

[Sean Sumner]

....definately E/1/2 no so soft pedalling for the local 1st Cats. :!: :lol: :wink:

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Alan Lawrence]

....definately E/1/2 no so soft pedalling for the local 1st Cats. :!: :lol: :wink:

:D :D :D :D :D :D

....I'm only jealous as being a 3rd Cat this year, but NOT for long, I can't ride the event. A shame because it's an excellent race, only problem it's probably the hardest race that most local riders ride all year and usually the first or second race of the season so most get dropped due to lack of racing in the legs. Good luck to all that take part and I'll be shouting ya on riding around the other way. :( :wink:

PS. Positioning is the key thing as strong crosswinds split the race every year, plus the race winning break ALWAYS goes on the 1st lap. :wink:

[PNuT]

im a 3rd cat & will be riding :lol: you can ride higher events than your cat but not lower :wink:

you aint getting out of it that easy :lol:

[pottsie]

I think you better read the rules PNuT, I shall be the Chief Commissaire and if your entry gets past the organiser it certainly won't get past me. :twisted:

[Alan Lawrence]

im a 3rd cat & will be riding :lol: you can ride higher events than your cat but not lower :wink:

you aint getting out of it that easy :lol:

....that's not what Brian states. :lol:

You riding around with me the other way or not. :?: :lol: :wink:

[PNuT]

I think you better read the rules PNuT, I shall be the Chief Commissaire and if your entry gets past the organiser it certainly won't get past me. :twisted:

can you point me to the rule were it says i cant enter?

i can point you to the rule that you seem is irrelevant regarding wheels & equiptment....

ive ridden the jock on a 4th cat licence.... :lol:

[dstaite]

I think you better read the rules PNuT, I shall be the Chief Commissaire and if your entry gets past the organiser it certainly won't get past me. :twisted:

can you point me to the rule were it says i cant enter?

i can point you to the rule that you seem is irrelevant regarding wheels & equiptment....

ive ridden the jock on a 4th cat licence.... :lol:

I'll be dragging my rowing trained carcase round as well ;-)

Cheers
Dan

[pottsie]

The regulation is on page 77 of the 2006 Handbook or 83 in the 2005 book. It is regulation 20.4.3 "Organisers shall not accept entries from riders in categories other than those to which the listing in the BCF Handbook indicates the event to be open, except where Region approval has been obtained." You may also like to look at the new Event Classifications on page 64 of the new Handbook, where it explains the classifications and which category of rider may enter.

You would have been allowed to ride the Wadley in previous years as it was open to all categories.

Would you like to explain your other comment concerning wheels & equipment?

[racyrich]

Then I hope the region gives blanket approval for all E/1/2s to accept 3rds. Only competent ones are likely to enter anyway, what benefit derives from denying them the ride, and the organiser the entry fee? And how many Eastern E/1/2s get a full field?

BTW, I suspect the rule Mark refers to which is never applied relates to bikes having handlebar endplugs and UCI legal wheels. At least 10% of all bikes in races would fail, but I gather that commissaires don't like to take responsibility for bike safety in case a crash later ensues and their omission leads to legal action.

[Alan Lawrence]

Then I hope the region gives blanket approval for all E/1/2s to accept 3rds. Only competent ones are likely to enter anyway, what benefit derives from denying them the ride, and the organiser the entry fee? And how many Eastern E/1/2s get a full field?

BTW, I suspect the rule Mark refers to which is never applied relates to bikes having handlebar endplugs and UCI legal wheels. At least 10% of all bikes in races would fail, but I gather that commissaires don't like to take responsibility for bike safety in case a crash later ensues and their omission leads to legal action.

....to be honest the E/1/2 RR's especially the Wadley will suffer with numbers as 60% of the field in past years has been 3rd & 4th Cats. OK this year is a new format but will the organiser of the Wadley want to lose even more money for 2007. :!: :?: :shock: :wink:

The year before last I was the last ERRL rider still in the race after 60 miles, this year I don't get a ride because I'm a 3rd Cat, but have been a few points from a 1st Cat in the past, and have been racing bikes for the past 20 years. How does that make me feel in this dying sport of road racing. :!: :?:

The BC can't even get a road race calendar right let alone think about the future of our sport on the road, or is it that fact that they want road racing to die. :!: :?: :twisted:

[PNuT]

the year i rode the jock it was listed as E,1,2.... my coach rang the organisor(which is still also the same guy) & he oked it....

as to reference to the wheel & equiptment rule, it was pointed out to you at the API RR at set of wheels that WERE NOT UCI LEGAL therefore not suitable for British Cyling events.... YOU were not bothered!

IMHO to stop a couple of quite capable 3rd cats for riding an event is a little pathetic in comparison to ignoring rules which have been set in place for safety reasons.

[TimW]

The regulation is on page 77 of the 2006 Handbook or 83 in the 2005 book. It is regulation 20.4.3 "Organisers shall not accept entries from riders in categories other than those to which the listing in the BCF Handbook indicates the event to be open, except where Region approval has been obtained." You may also like to look at the new Event Classifications on page 64 of the new Handbook, where it explains the classifications and which category of rider may enter.
?

What's the thinking behind this regulation?
The only reasonable explanation that I can think of is to reduce the amount that fields split up. But this is nonsense - even E/1 fields split up.
In every other respect it seems ridiculous:
3 & 4 cats are not going to stop higher cats getting a ride (unless the high cats insist on entering late - which is not something that organisers normally encourage).
3 & 4 cats are not going to get demoralised - they're not stupid enough to enter E/1/2 races by accident.
Strong 3 & 4 cats, like Pnut, who are looking for a good race rather than soft points, will just end up as ringers in 3/4 cat races (which is likely to demoralise 'genuine' 3 & 4 cats)
We'll end up with small fields, less atmostphere, fewer entry fees contributing to the prize pot, smaller prizes...

From a personal point of view, when I was a third cat I used to get much more excited about racing 1/2/3 races (no E cat in those days) than I did about 3/J.

[ChrisB]

Tim,

if 'handy' third cats are worried, I'm sure BC HQ will gladly issue them a second-cat licence on request, especially if the rider can point to previous results to back his claim.

Chris

[Alan Lawrence]

Tim,

if 'handy' third cats are worried, I'm sure BC HQ will gladly issue them a second-cat licence on request, especially if the rider can point to previous results to back his claim.

Chris

....I have tried that Chris and got refused by Paul West, even though I know I am well capable of handling myself in a E/1/2 event, well that's of course if I have trained hard enough before the event(s). I agree with what Tim has stated. :wink:

[ChrisB]

Perhaps you're not handy enough? 8) :wink:

[Alan Lawrence]

Perhaps you're not handy enough? 8) :wink:

....that's obviously why I'm in the 'No-Hopers' category this year, well for the first few events anyway. As soon as I get my 2nd Cat back, which won't take long, I'll drop Paul West an e-mail to let him know that his decision was wrong. Not bitter and twisted or nothing but Paul's decision has certainly made me train hard this winter. :!: :wink:

[sdc]

Perhaps you're not handy enough? 8) :wink:

....that's obviously why I'm in the 'No-Hopers' category this year, well for the first few events anyway. As soon as I get my 2nd Cat back, which won't take long, I'll drop Paul West an e-mail to let him know that his decision was wrong. Not bitter and twisted or nothing but Paul's decision has certainly made me train hard this winter. :!: :wink:

cheek what does that make me then :( :lol:

[Alan Lawrence]

Perhaps you're not handy enough? 8) :wink:

....that's obviously why I'm in the 'No-Hopers' category this year, well for the first few events anyway. As soon as I get my 2nd Cat back, which won't take long, I'll drop Paul West an e-mail to let him know that his decision was wrong. Not bitter and twisted or nothing but Paul's decision has certainly made me train hard this winter. :!: :wink:

cheek what does that make me then :( :lol:

.....the same as me, hence the need to train and race harder. :lol: :wink:

[pottsie]

According to the new Racing Events Framework which is now incorporated into the Technical Regulations for Road and Circuit racing, the maximum number of categories allowed in an event is three, except for handicap events. The Regional approval in the regulation is meant for exceptional circumstances and blanket approval will not be given.

These new regulations were the outcome of a Competition Review where all riders were invited to put their views on how they wished racing to be in the future. This was by questionaire and meetings. Therefore the outcome should be what the riders wanted.

[txorme]

You are correct however, a subsequent addendum (correcting addendum 4) was issued on january 10th clarifying the intent of the regulation on page 77 of the 2006 Handbook or 83 in the 2005 book. The regulation 20.4.3 "Organisers shall not accept entries from riders in categories other than those to which the listing in the BCF Handbook indicates the event to be open, except where Region approval has been obtained." This overrides the unclear and ambiguous wording in Event Classifications on page 64 of the new Handbook, where it explains the classifications and which category of rider may enter which, in reading the Racing Events Framework which is now incorporated into the Technical Regulations for Road and Circuit racing, the maximum number of categories allowed in an event is three, except for handicap events. The Regional approval in the regulation is meant for exceptional circumstances and blanket approval will not be given. However the regulation can be overirdden by the chap who rides around the circuit in the opposite direction once only in the little ring one hour before the scheduled start time of the grossly under subscribed event.

[PNuT]

so, were does this leave events like the ecca festival road race?

[pottsie]

Wondering if we are going to get enough entries for the E/1/2. But because of new conditions in the 3/4 we won't have to return as many entries, as it is only open to members of ECCA member clubs. The Festival poster can be found at: http://www.questronics.supanet.com/
under "FESTIVAL".

[PNuT]

just so i can get this straight in my head... the main ECCA road race is open too E/1/2 + W/J ?

but no 3/4 cat riders :?

[pottsie]

Yes, it is open to all E/1/2 categories, men, women and juniors. The 3/4 is open to ECCA 3rd & 4th men & juniors and 2nd cat women (who are allowed to ride down a category).

[lombywill]

so if a third cat turns up on the line at the Jock Wadley and the field is not full are they going to get refused entry? I've been trying to get fit enough to feel confident in entering this race but being a third cat it now seems we'll be denied the chance. Fair enough if it attracts a full quality field from the surrounding divisions but is this usually the case?

[Alan Lawrence]

Yes, it is open to all E/1/2 categories, men, women and juniors. The 3/4 is open to ECCA 3rd & 4th men & juniors and 2nd cat women (who are allowed to ride down a category).

....that may be another event (E/1/2) that may suffer to get numbers in riders and lose the organiser money, I hope not for their and the sports sake. :roll:

[pottsie]

Yes.
Last year there were 70 entries, 12 of which were 3rd & 4th cats.

[PNuT]

are the east divs still going to be e/1/2/3/4?

[pottsie]

The ECCA will always put on the Senior Road Race regardless of if it gets a full field. That is as long as there are no unforeseen circumstances that are beyond our control.

[pottsie]

According to BC all Regional Championships will be open to all senior categories.

[PNuT]

im trying to work out the LOGIC behind all this.... apart from their being 10 million 3/4 cats expressing their veiws rather than a few hundred E/1/2's......

[Alan Lawrence]

.....right whilst I'm on my soap box please read this;

Last year rode the Wadley as a 2nd Cat, this year a lot fitter for the time of year yet can't ride as I'm a 3rd Cat. At the end of the day all I want to do is race my bike, as well as being the same rider yet fitter my money is the same colour as any E/1/2 rider that will be riding the Wadley.

Why not do away with categories, the best rider on the day always wins and if riders can't get entry forms off early enough then tough! That way there wouldn't be any race all year without a full field plus riders wouldn't get away with glass cranking their way to the finish line in any race.

That's better, got that of my chest. :roll: :wink:

[TimW]

These new regulations were the outcome of a Competition Review where all riders were invited to put their views on how they wished racing to be in the future. This was by questionaire and meetings. Therefore the outcome should be what the riders wanted.

I filled in the questionnaire but this isn't what I want. It's a while ago but I also don't remember question asking me whether it's what I wanted either.

[Alan Lawrence]

According to BC all Regional Championships will be open to all senior categories.

....that's where the ruling system does my head in, why Regional Champs yet not a class event like the Wadley. :!: :?

[Alan Lawrence]

These new regulations were the outcome of a Competition Review where all riders were invited to put their views on how they wished racing to be in the future. This was by questionaire and meetings. Therefore the outcome should be what the riders wanted.

I filled in the questionnaire but this isn't what I want. It's a while ago but I also don't remember question asking me whether it's what I wanted either.

....Ditto. :!: :?

[PNuT]

if i was a struggeling 4th cat i would want events restricted to @ the most 2/3/4..... thats only obvious! as i wouldnt want to pay 15 quid to get shelled out the back in the first lap?

if i was elite i wouldnt give a monkies who else was riding....

[ChrisB]

The rule change I'm dreading is the 'no day licence to non-members'. I think I'll be turning a lot of EOL riders away at the Simon Hook...

[sdc]

if i was a struggeling 4th cat i would want events restricted to @ the most 2/3/4..... thats only obvious! as i wouldnt want to pay 15 quid to get shelled out the back in the first lap?

if i was elite i wouldnt give a monkies who else was riding....

Yes I am and I do,







for now anyway :wink:

[John Ireland]

Likewise... I was very disappointed to see the restriction on 3rds entering what would have been E123 races, like the Wadley. As with Tim, i don't recall anything in the questionnaire that should have dropped this on us. Seems pointless, particularly considering the number of riders who have to take time out from racing for various reasons, slip back to 3rd, but when they can come back, they want to race the races they used to. Same legs, different circumstances. Had been aiming for some miles at the J-W, but it doesn't look like it can happen... or the Maldon or the ECCA.

[JT]

I might just stick to TT's the entry system is much easier :lol: :lol: :roll:

[needmorespeed]

I think this situation is a backward step by BC.
Elite races should be open to all cats, to help finance them,to give 3rds and 4ths decent target races to ride (and show them how useless 3/4 races are).
There are always going to be good riders who have been down graded, are making a come back and would be more than capeable of getting round or even a result.
No one is being forced to ride above their catergory, but if there is room in the race WHY NOT LET THEM IN?
It is hardly going to effect the result much.
I'm sure the organiser could do with the extra entry money to help paying for the police and providing a good prize list to attract the riders the event deserves.

Without enough riders we will loose these events.

I bet what will happen in the ECCA Champs there will be a field of about 25 in the E12.
The 3/4 will be over run with all the 3rds, some of who always ride the senior, and the 4ths won't get a look in.

[pottsie]

The rule change I'm dreading is the 'no day licence to non-members'. I think I'll be turning a lot of EOL riders away at the Simon Hook...

This rule has now been revised by BC. Non Member Day Licences are allowed in Regional A & B events, but not National A, B & C.

Joan Potts

[ChrisB]

And National C?

EDIT - OK, not National C - have seen your other post.