Proposed Rule Changes for consideration at AGM

[ChrisB]

Where the word changes to the rules don't make sense, I've added a comment in italics explaining what's going on.

1. Delete existing & replace by ?The name of the organisation shall be called the EASTERN ROAD RACE LEAGUE ? ERRL?

2. Delete existing & replace by ?The ERRL objective is to provide, through its member clubs, Road Racing, under the Rules of BC of not less than 50km for all riders.?

Thus allowing clubs to promote for Elite riders if they want

3. Delete £15, & replace by £30,

This refers to the membership fee

7. Add: ?The League may make reasonable requests to organisers to change the dates of events to avoid clashes with other ERRL events?.

8. Add: ?Entry fees shall be £10 for all events for member club?s riders, £15 for non-ERRL entries, and all on-the-line entries.?

11. Prize values. Delete & replace by:
40 riders £14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4.
50 ? £18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4.
60 ? £22, 20, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6,4

12. Delete the words ?from 2nd, 3rd,4th and Junior category riders?.

this would allow 1st category riders (and Elites, if the earlier motion is passed) not belonging to ERRL clubs be to enter ERRL races - at the moment, only ERRL 1sts are allowed to enter 1/2/3 ERRL races

[zeco]

Chris,

I have just read through the Agenda for your AGM and the proposed rule changes. I feel that an opportunity has been lost.

There is a fundamental difference between the Surrey League and the ERRL which goes beyond the structure of the respective organisations. Surrey have worked up from a wide base to promote for all categories whereas ERRL are seeking to accommodate all of the present categories (E1234J) within a limited number of races. See my other post.

AOB - Something to work on for the future?

I had thought of attending the AGM but I already have a pre-arranged meal with Knocker and Bill Lewis.

Probably just as well in retrospect.

[ChrisB]

Zeco,

small moves, small moves! You can't expect the ERRL to change to something the size of the Surrey League in one season. The changes I've proposed will allow MORE CLUBS to become members, should they wish, and keep their existing promotions entact, you see? Only when we've got a larger number of races under the League's umbrella can we start to move to a more SL-type organisation.

What you don't see in the agenda or rule changes was a suggestion from me that we discuss how to move the league forward from here. I think it's a shame that you've pre-judged the meeting, and that you aren't coming. Anyway, how would we have known who you were when you're hiding behind that username? ;)

[zeco]

Zeco,

small moves, small moves! You can't expect the ERRL to change to something the size of the Surrey League in one season. The changes I've proposed will allow MORE CLUBS to become members, should they wish, and keep their existing promotions entact, you see? Only when we've got a larger number of races under the League's umbrella can we start to move to a more SL-type organisation.

What you don't see in the agenda or rule changes was a suggestion from me that we discuss how to move the league forward from here. I think it's a shame that you've pre-judged the meeting, and that you aren't coming. Anyway, how would we have known who you were when you're hiding behind that username? ;)

Hiding, what do you mean? :lol:

[ChrisB]

1. Delete existing & replace by ?The name of the organisation shall be called the EASTERN ROAD RACE LEAGUE ? ERRL?


Passed unanimously


2. Delete existing & replace by ?The ERRL objective is to provide, through its member clubs, Road Racing, under the Rules of BC of not less than 50km for all riders.?

Thus allowing clubs to promote for Elite riders if they want


After lengthly debate, this was passed 16-3




3. Delete £15, & replace by £30,

This refers to the membership fee


This item was withdrawn



7. Add: ?The League may make reasonable requests to organisers to change the dates of events to avoid clashes with other ERRL events?.


Passed unanimously



8. Add: ?Entry fees shall be £10 for all events for member club?s riders, £15 for non-ERRL entries, and all on-the-line entries.?


After some discussion, this item was amended to include a £5 surcharge over the organisers stipulated fee for non-members and EOL. This was then passed.



11. Prize values. Delete & replace by:
40 riders £14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4.
50 ? £18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4.
60 ? £22, 20, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6,4


Passed unanimously



12. Delete the words ?from 2nd, 3rd,4th and Junior category riders?.

this would allow 1st category riders (and Elites, if the earlier motion is passed) not belonging to ERRL clubs be to enter ERRL races - at the moment, only ERRL 1sts are allowed to enter 1/2/3 ERRL races

This was passed 16-2

And we figured out who Zeco must be :lol:

[Bianchiben]

I'm a little confused, can you confirm what the current restriction is?

Can elites ride?

Also, was anything discussed about points for races?

[racyrich]

OK.
First and most important point. Currently, and after this rule change, races will still only be open to the categories stated in the handbook.

Right, now for the main changes. Currently, an ERRL 1/2/3 only allows 1sts from ERRL clubs. This will change, so any 1sts can ride. BUT, preference is still to ERRL members, so 'foreign' 1sts will only get rides in races that don't have full fields.

Second point. A rule was changed to allow clubs to promote ANY category race under ERRL rules. So theoretically, and in fact quite probably now the Anglia Sport have joined, there could be an ERRL E/1/2. Preference to member riders would still apply of course.

Third point. Non-ERRL riders will have to pay £5 extra to ride, just like a Surrey league.

None of this seems too radical to me, but a couple of people found it incredibly contentious, as if it were some conspiracy against 3rd cats, allowing outsider 1sts in. The 3rds in question would never have entered a 1/2/3 anyway so their point is a mystery to me. And if the rest of the 2nds and 3rds hold their nerve and enter there won't be spare places for these vicious point-grabbing 1st cat invaders anyway!

[Bianchiben]

was anything about points allocation discussed? - more points for bigger races etc?

[racyrich]

BTW, does anybody know if the ERRL members preference is applied to reserves, or EoLs? If a race without a full field gets lots of EoLs, do the ERRL riders amongst them get first shout?
Would be a nightmare to police. Wouldn't be a case of first come first served, and the rest reserves. All EoLs would have to be reserves and then rides allocated by club.

[racyrich]

No, no mention of different points for different cat races. Were you expecting there to be?

[notsoracy rich]

racyrich-the point is that 1st cats were only allowed to ride as a favour a bout 5 years ago because they were finding it difficult travelling to races.Since then some races which used to be 2/3/ 4 have become 1/2/3 or 1/2/3/4. This means that 1st cats now get a ride at the expense of 3/4 cats who are now either not allowed to race ,or aware that in such a strong field they will be dropped in the neutralised zone.
An example of this was the Glendene 'Hell of the Ends'RR which was a race I enjoyed as a challenge , but when it was 'upgraded' became a 1/2/3 race which I couldn't ride as a 4th cat.
Anyway, you're still my hero!

[Bianchiben]

It was mentioned in e-mails between Chris and myself - categorising races, so that longer / harder races get allocated more points - crits get less. Or even that 4ths and 3rds get more points.

Also mentioned were getting a point for finishing - or deductions for DNS or DNF (without adequate excuses).

I forgot to send these off as a suggestion, but wondered if anyone esle had brought it up.

Last year, there was a group set up to review the points allocation system, but they never got together as far as I know.

[racyrich]

You smoothy you!

Having 5 categories to cater for instead of the old 3 has just made life too complicated for promoters. An old-fashioned 2/3 would have included most of the riders who are now 1sts, and of course all the 4ths. Possibly then there were more 3/Js, but then the usual gripe was that the juniors would kick the 3rds' butt. Now it's the 1sts (over-promoted 2nds) they worry about.
There is no way to keep everyone happy. Becoming the 'Eastern' RRL might encourage more clubs to join and thus more eligible events, so more people catered for. Not entirely convinced by this as I don't imagine many clubs will suddenly promote a race they didn't already.
I can also see in the long run that having more league races for 1sts will lead to more Elites being created. Then we can have this argument again in a few years, as they won't have any local races either.

[Bianchiben]

Yeah, might have to increase field size to 100 riders, or run more aussie pursuits!

[racyrich]

It was mentioned last night that at last year's AGM (I wasn't there) it had been passed (??) that the points would be like the Surrey league, with points going much further down, points for finishing, deducted for DNS's etc. It seems that without very good photo-finish equipment this is just not feasible.
I know I know, Surrey manages, etc. But with central organisation and central end of season prizes, taking days or even longer to get out a result might not bother them so much.

[ChrisB]

Ooh, a lot's gone on in this thread without me realising!

1. Points. The 'points for all' wasn't so much abandoned, as never adopted. However, the committee was charged with restructuring the points system as a result of the 2003 AGM, but never got round to doing it between then and the 2004 AGM. I'd favour something mimicing the current BC system. In fact, we could almost copy their points allocation exactly.

2. 1st cats. There are two issues: a) there aren't enough 1st cat races in the division, let alone the league. b) not allowing non-ERRL 1sts to rider ERRL 1st cat races was ridiculous - not enough competition for the ERRL 1sts, not fair on the non-ERRL ones. Point b) has thankfully been addressed now. Point a) is still a problem. The fact that few third and fourth cat riders were complaining an awful lot last night doesn't disguise the fact that they are still a lot better served for races than the other categories. If it wasn't for the few league 1/2/3 races, there would be practically no races for 1st cats in the division. Perhaps now we'll get a few more 1/2/3 events IN ADDITION to what we already have on the calendar. Also, Ben, Under the old rules, you couldn't promote an ERRL event open to Elite riders.

3. ERRL preference. ERRL riders only get preference over non-ERRL riders for pre-entries received by the closing date. After that it's a free-for-all. And rightly so. If you can't be arsed to enter on time, then why should you get special treatment?

4. Elite cat events in the ERRL. I don't imagine many, if any, of these appearing in the calendar in the short term. As preference would have to go to ERRL members first, then non-ERRL Elites would be missing out over the lower categories, and seeing as most Elite races are over 130km, possibly with sponsorship and decent prizes, it's probably not in the best interests of a promoter to organize under these rules.

5. £5 for non-ERRL/EOL. This will only come into effect for 2006.

[racyrich]

Perhaps I should also mention a rule was changed doubling the minimum prize list allowed.
Curiously this applies next season even though the organisers have already set their entry fees and made their budget.

[zeco]

And we figured out who Zeco must be :lol:

I am considering changing my username to Secret Squirrel! :wink:

[zeco]

It was mentioned last night that at last year's AGM (I wasn't there) it had been passed (??) that the points would be like the Surrey league, with points going much further down, points for finishing, deducted for DNS's etc. It seems that without very good photo-finish equipment this is just not feasible.
I know I know, Surrey manages, etc. But with central organisation and central end of season prizes, taking days or even longer to get out a result might not bother them so much.

We never had photo-finish at Kent or Surrey Leagues and - as far as I am aware - they still don't. If the commissaires and line-judges are doing their job right, the riders left in the race should be accounted for. The judges place the leading riders at the finish and the commissaires behind the bunch account for those at the back. There might be a few in the middle placed as 'equal' but by and large it works reasonably well. 8)

[Alan Lawrence]

..must be a near impossible job ?? :? I suppose it must be like standing next to a motorway and writing down the makes of all the cars that go past a certain point during rush hour ? :? :shock: :lol:

[speedyshaun]

:P Good to hear there were some changes at the AGM and that Angliasport have joined, doubt too many 1st cats will be moving up to elite unless BC change the points system again, as getting 100 points against 2nd cats is alot easier than getting 200 points against 1st cats.