VC Baracchi Summer RR

[mark]

http://www.surlaplage.net/cycling/misc/dsb.jpg
A fine Southend win by Dean... (Photos)
(http://www.surlaplage.net/cycling/)

[Alan Lawrence]

....as usual Mark excellent photo's and a well deserved win for the club & Dean. :!: :wink:

[nickiey]

....as usual Mark excellent photo's and a well deserved win for the club & Dean. :!: :wink:

I hope these piccies are appreciated by you lot-it was bloody cold out there today. :shock:

How I suffer for my art! :wink:

[ChrisB]

Hi Nickey,

any objections to me using one for the result on the front page?

Chris

[nickiey]

Hi Nickey,

any objections to me using one for the result on the front page?

Chris

No not at all. :D

I'm just sorry I didn't make it around the course today, The new harry potter was just a bit too interesting, my folding chair too comfy, and frankly a couple of hours on my own too good to pass up on.

[MarkC]

My photos here........www.mphotography.co.uk

Mark

[ChrisB]

For anyone querying the official result for this, see the following from organiser Nick Esser:

This is the chief judge's final decision on the matter. This is how it was seen as 20 riders came across the line in a sprint across the road at 30 mph! I think the www.surlaplage.net picture (no26) tell it's slightly different however riders were offered to dispute the result just after the race and they didn't so the result stands.

[Bianchiben]

For the record - I have a picture that shows the result pretty well - bit better than mphoto, as they're on the line...

for the 5th place sprint - I've got the following (sorry for no names!):

5th Vince Devine - perfect lunge!
6th 53 x 12 rider
7th Cambridge rider
8th Economic nrg rider
9th Ipswich Rider
10th Other cambridge rider (smaller one)
=12th Matt Thurston
=12th Brett Travers

I'd have attached the photo if I knew how...[/list]

[Alan Lawrence]

For the record - I have a picture that shows the result pretty well - bit better than mphoto, as they're on the line...

for the 5th place sprint - I've got the following (sorry for no names!):

5th Vince Devine - perfect lunge!
6th 53 x 12 rider
7th Cambridge rider
8th Economic nrg rider
9th Ipswich Rider
10th Other cambridge rider (smaller one)
=12th Matt Thurston
=12th Brett Travers

I'd have attached the photo if I knew how...[/list]

...you can e-mail the photo to me Ben and I will upload to this thread. :wink:

amlawrence@btinternet.com

[ChrisB]

It's all a bit irrelevant, guys, as Nick has said the result as publish will stand...

[Alan Lawrence]

It's all a bit irrelevant, guys, as Nick has said the result as publish will stand...

....point taken Chris, looks like it's not worth e-mailing the photo Ben. :cry:

[Bianchiben]

I agree - there's not much point - and also stand by the judge's decision.

However it does raise the question around judging - I don't see why judges can't use video cameras etc to ascertain who finishes where - or at least which jersey colours finish in what order - then sort out the actual riders in the changing rooms. That way we could have more faster finishes - instead of the organisers having to find any hill for us to grovel up...

I have tried judging in the past - and it's pretty difficult i'll agree - although some people do organise things differently - one time I did it, I was asked to get positions 4 & 5 - other people were covering off the other placings - is this normal? - seems like a good idea.

It would be far easier to use camcorders etc in this day and age, everyone's got one...

[Alan Lawrence]

I agree - there's not much point - and also stand by the judge's decision.

However it does raise the question around judging - I don't see why judges can't use video cameras etc to ascertain who finishes where - or at least which jersey colours finish in what order - then sort out the actual riders in the changing rooms. That way we could have more faster finishes - instead of the organisers having to find any hill for us to grovel up...

I have tried judging in the past - and it's pretty difficult i'll agree - although some people do organise things differently - one time I did it, I was asked to get positions 4 & 5 - other people were covering off the other placings - is this normal? - seems like a good idea.

It would be far easier to use camcorders etc in this day and age, everyone's got one...

....how about strapping a mobile phone each side of a helmet on video mode for the final KM. :!: :?: :shock: :D :D

[James W]

I have tried judging in the past - and it's pretty difficult i'll agree - although some people do organise things differently - one time I did it, I was asked to get positions 4 & 5 - other people were covering off the other placings - is this normal? - seems like a good idea.

We did that in the Ike Saul RR. We had about a dozen people on the finish line, doing tasks such as writing numbers, spotting numbers and calling them out, and people with dictaphones. We had two sets of people for positions 1-6, two for 4-10 and two for 8-15, if I remember correctly. We ended up with a bunch sprint for fourth place. Even then, several riders were missed out from the lists, and the positions were nigh-on impossible to judge from what the judges had written down, due to the contradictions. Further problems were caused when they didn't have time to tell the difference between eg No. 30 and No 80, as they look very similar. A comment on the difficulty of the task, not the competence of the judges!

The thing that saved us was that we had a video of the finish line (taken from the top of a step ladder, looking across the finish line) and another person taking shots in sports mode using a digital camera (also standing on a step ladder), shooting in the direction of the riders so we could get their numbers. Even then it was a nightmare deciphering the video as there was a lot of interlacing and blurring, since the riders came past the finish pretty quick.
I didn't have the right software for advancing the video a frame at a time. We eventually sorted it, with a lot of cross-referencing, and got what I think was a perfect result for the top 15. Next time I hope we'll have more digital cameras on sports mode. They seem to be the way forward. [And a flippin' finish line painted on the road, rather than two posts to judge between!!!!!].

I'd suggest at least two digital cameras - one where we had it, to get the numbers (on a stepladder) and another taken in the opposite direction, looking at the finish line, towards the oncoming riders.

[Sam the Eagle]

Re use of a video camera; I raced an event on the mentmore circuit a couple of years back where the finish was video recorded. The video captured positions 1 - 5 and then stopped as no 6 collided with the tripod and operator head on. Not sure I would want to be atop a ladder at a bunch finish :roll:

[James W]

I did think about falling off the ladder, and thought about wearing a helmet (only for a moment seriously) :wink:

In practice, to get a decent field of view across the finish line, I had to stand about 4 metres back from the edge of the road, so there was little chance of getting clobbered! The biggest danger was a self-induced fall, due to getting too excited about the race and not about what angle I was leaning at :)

[ChrisB]

A consumer video camera is useful for identifying jerseys, nothing more. There just isn't the resolution to be able to identify numbers. Dictaphones to record numbers as they cross the line is a better idea, although my DSLR will do 8.5 frames a second for 40 frames, which I make about 5 seconds - how many places would that cover at 30mph?

[fatoldguy]

The answer to this problem is simple really. If you want to get placed 1) get up the road on your todd 2) get in a break small enough to enable the judges to get the result.

However the last option is flawed as despite the size of my arse and finishing at the back of the break I was still missed from the results at Beccles.

Just goes to show that there's abosolutly no justification for finishing a race up a hill so the judges can get the placings. If their gonna miss riders at least do it on a whoosing finish where I can get the twelve round and push a few skinny boys around!

[Wielrenner]

How much would it cost to invest in a set of cycle transponders? A lot of the 'cycle sportifs' in Europe use these now, so I can't imagine that they are mega bucks. I couldn't find any reference to them when I typed it into google. So maybe they have another name.

I know it is one extra thing to give out, collect in etc. etc. but it may solve the arguments and if spread over a season or two's races it might not work out too expensive.

[TimW]

I don't think that transponders would solve the problem - they're accurate enough for (stage) race times but not for finish line judging. The obvious solution is photo-finish equipment but I suspect that most organisers will continue to decide that it's too expensive to justify.

[Bianchiben]

An interesting solution that the WSWheelers came up with as part of the Slick n Knobbly 2-day, was to have cones after the finish which made the riders filter into a funnel (not the science lab size), until they had stopped in a straight line, then they noted the numbers!

Can't quite imagine that happening in the TDF, but it would make quite a spectacle!

[speedyshaun]

An interesting solution that the WSWheelers came up with as part of the Slick n Knobbly 2-day, was to have cones after the finish which made the riders filter into a funnel (not the science lab size), until they had stopped in a straight line, then they noted the numbers!

Can't quite imagine that happening in the TDF, but it would make quite a spectacle!

Might as well take away the finish line and say the first one into the funnel is the winner, this will make cycling into a great spectator sport, what with all the crashes.

[Tompos]

Maybe if you run all races over grass fields and muddy tracks, sling in a few run ups and planks, it might stretch the field out nicely so no need for photo finish equipment? :D

Can't believe know ones thought of it before! :wink: